Hola,
A few weeks ago I asked a question about the
practice of not calling stations that are week or
not of a certian signal level. Although some responded
to the list many did not so I have summrized the
responses.
I do not think my orginal post was as clearly
worded as it could have been and there was some
confusion.
When I said "weak" - I define weak as a station
that I can copy (ie. I can get their callsign etc.) but
......well....WEAK.
If you make it to the end of this post - you will find
my comments there.
I have removed all the names/calls etc.
Thanks for all the input.
============ Orignal post =================
> Hi,
>
>
> I have a question that I have been thinking about
> for awhile now. Every now and then I will see a post
> or hear someone say that usually a station has
> to be s-5 or s-7 or some measure of strength strong
> before (whomever is making the post/statement) will be
> able to work that station.
>
> I always wonder if that means that they don't ever/often
> call stations that don't meet or excced that signal level?
>
> If they do pass up stations - how do they know that the
> weak station is not QRP or that he can "hear" really well?
>
> Do you ever pass up weak stations?
>
>
> One of the reasons I ask is that I am get to do alot of
> operating from a VERY quiet location and I can "hear" very
> well as a result. I do alot of contesting - I will admit
> that most of it is at the 1500 watt level but I want to
> do more QRP contesting as well. I would hate to think that
> stations are NOT calling me because they think they dont have
> a chance of working me.
>
>
> I will be glad to summrize the responses I get - or yall
> can just post them to the list.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> George Fremin III "You give me a $10,000 custom guitar
> Austin, Texas and Chet Atkins a $200 discount
> K5TR (ex.WB5VZL) store special, and who do you think
> 512/416-7010 will make better music?"
> geoiii@bga.com -- Lee AA4GA
> http://www.kkn.net/~k5tr
>
=================== Responses ==============================
For "instant" QSOs, i.e. "ur 599 MD" I'll start at 3 watts, maybe less.
If I can't be heard, I'll bump it up.
For a decent ragchew, I like the station calling CQ to be a good S5-S7 if
I intend to hold the frequency.
I'll also try to work an occasional weak station - hearing the other guy
call "CQ de K3AG/QRP" makes me feel better about initiating the QSO with a
reply.
I worked ZK1XXP from my car on 17m CW when the DXpedition was on. Had to
go up to 20w, but for heaven's sake, I was reading them at an S-0. I
can't even imagine where my signal was.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suspect the short answer to your question is: Yes, some people will
not bother to try to work weak signals. That's their option. As for me,
I will try for the weak ones -- especially if they sign /QRP. In fact,
I will try and try very hard to work anyone signing /QRP.
Worked Chuck at 1 watt last Sunday ... had a nice chat. Worked Jake
(N4UY) with his Pixie at 200 mw last night. Oh, the weak ones are there.
And I suspect the thrill of working someone with 200mw is something the
guys who pass on the weak ones will just never have.
As for working a weak one during a contest, I can see where is big gun
will pass you buy, it would be time wasted on a hard QSO.... But just
you will till the last 1-2 hours of the contest! They will work the weak
one, 'cause they need the points or the multipliers!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are doing some interesting wondering.
Generally speaking, in contests in particular, I find that if I can hear a
station, I can usually work him. I missed Bob, N4BP, in the last contest
on one band, just because I couldn't find that "sweet spot" where his
filter would let me in. There are some exceptions, but I've decided that
these are guys who just can't hear well, (not Bob) or have their rigs set
up to hear only the loudest stations.
In one of the recent contests, there was a guy (in a section I wanted, of
course) who had to be S-8 on my rig, and who was calling CQ with a taker
once every few minutes (no pile up). Usually I get these guys on the first
call. I tried everything I knew to make him hear me, on at least three
occasions, but he never did.
In the same contest, more than once I'd hear a weak station in the
background, at least the third level down, answer him, and he'd came right
back to me.
Now, when there is not a contest, it doesn't work that way. I'm much less
likely to nab the weak station. I have done it when it's a DX station, but
not so often with stateside stations.
BTW, I rarely sign "/qrp". Sometimes, as a sort of last resort when I'm
trying to break through a pileup, but even then, it I've not had much
success.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To your question...I've been hamming 60+ years...mostly DX and many, many of
those
I've worked were S1 to S5 sigs from all over the world(324 worked HF QRO and
108 QRP)...and most weren't QRP either. On the other hand, I've worked many,
many QRP stations with S5 to S9+ sigs. So for me, I'll work ANYBODY
including the weaker and especially the rarer sigs as long as I can copy
them :-) Recently made QRP WAZ in 1:10 hrs on 15M. Have 2 SS pins(cw/ssb)
for last two years QRP(tnx to TR)...and more. QRP does the job unless head
to head against QRO++.
Don't know if this what you had in mind...hope it helps.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This assumes that I am looking at the (gues)S meter! To me weak
is not a low meter reading, if I were to be looking at the S meter.
Weak is something below R3 or R4.
Or to put it another way..........
Weak is something I can't copy 70% plus.
Really weak is something I can't hear.
Even with "lotsa watts" there are times that I feel like I have a
weak signal - mostly because my rate has gone in the dumper for the
moment.
Never felt that way in this past CQ WW CW, tho, from C6A. Something
about having a +10db call!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I operate QRP SSB. I make most my contacts by tailending QSOs, and I do
not usually spend the time listening for a break in conversation unless
most of the stations participating in the QSO are at least s9. The
exception to this is when I am operating near QRP calling frequencies.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi George... there are some folks who make statements like that... and it
IS a hobby, and that IS their privilege... and they are welcome to their
small little world... it matches their small little minds... the answer to
your question is that they don't care whether it's QRP of a weak signal, or
what. Sometimes those rose-colored glasses some people like to wear get a
bit opaque.
The nice thing about ham radio is that there's always someone ELSE to talk
to, and we can just leave them to their idea of what a QSO is-or should
be-and pursue OUR idea of what it is-or could be.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've heard a lot of talk on the list about calling the strongest stations if
you are QRP .... that hasn't worked well for me. When I am backpacking in
the boonies with 2 watts I find that my best bet is to call stations at or
near the QRP frequencies if I want to make a quick contact. I think it's a
matter of stations *listening* for QRP that makes the difference. Weak
stations are just as likely to come back as the strong ones.
When I'm contesting with a KW and a big antenna I usually try to hold a
frequency. With QRP I search and pounce. The big gun stations who are
calling CQ presumedly have good antennas, and will hear me. It isn't often
that I try to work a weak station sending CQ when I am QRP. Maybe that's a
mistake ... but I figger the propagation path to a weak stn calling CQ is poor.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I get to operate HF very little, but when I do take the mobile setup 'to
the field' I'm not shy about calling anyone! Oddly, for a mobile station,
I seem to receive very well. So many (MANY!) of my calls go unanswered,
but nothing ventured nothing gained! No matter how often I do it, I'm
always surprised when some of the stations I call can actually hear me!
My motto: Call 'em all, if they don't answer after a few tries, move on.
Works for me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Howdy Folks,
George (K5TR) wrote:
> Every now and then I will see a post or hear someone say that
> usually a station has to be s-5 or s-7 or some measure of strength
> strong before [... they ...] will be able to work that station.
Just to clarify, since I think this statement may be misread.
What you're saying is that some folks feel that unless the
signal they hear is s-5 or greater, they themselves won't be
heard by the ham owning that sig, right? Please correct me
if I'm wrong.
> If they do pass up stations - how do they know that the
> weak station is not QRP or that he can "hear" really well?
They don't. :-) Unless the other station adds /QRP
to the end of their call, or is a known chronic QRPer,
we can't tell either. Bottom line is you never know 'til
you try. So the question is do most folks try? In a
contest, I'd say yes they do.
> Do you ever pass up weak stations?
Depends on "weak". Weak but solid copy, I'll go for it.
Weak and really sketchy copy (339 or lower) I may call,
but I'll expect a very short QSO. In a contest though,
if I detect even a minor disturbance in RF, I'm
on it. :-)
> One of the reasons I ask is that I am get to do alot of
> operating from a VERY quiet location and I can "hear" very
> well [ ... ] I would hate to think that stations are NOT
> calling me because they think they dont have a chance of
> working me.
Yep, that might be a problem, though a minor one. That's
why I sometimes add /QRP to the end of my call, especially
when calling "CQ DX" - I want the guy on the other end to
know that if he can hear my 5W, I sure will hear his 100W. :-)
It's good QRP promotion too - when a guy hears me signing
/QRP and I have a good s-7 sig, he's reminded that QRP
works, whether or not he chooses to call me. :-) And if
he's an anti-QRP bigot, we had nothing to talk about
anyway.
In most contests I don't think it's an issue though.
Good contesters will work ESP sigs via moon-backscatter
to get points. ;-)
Don't worry too much about it. Folks who really want to
work you (fellow contesters in particular) will call you
no matter what. Adding /QRP on the end may help, but it
may also turn away the few anti-QRP bigots out there.
Might well break even. :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The advice given new operators, QRP or not, is generally to call the
strongest stations they can hear. This improves their chances of a
response. However, as you operate and gain experience you will develop a
"personal threshold" that you can use to instinctively separate the likelys
from the no chancers. I've been doing this stuff for 42 years next April
16th, or so, and have pretty finely developed "personal threshold". I do
use that threshold sometimes, but I still call the weak ones because I also
know they'll hear me about as well as I can hear them, and maybe they'll get
lucky and work me!
Don't get hung up on numbers. Don't get put off by what others do. DO your
own thing. Practice, listen, and call them. If they don't hear you after
several calls go away and come back later. Maybe the band needs to change
just a little bit. Half the fun of ham radio is the uncertainty!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like to listen for dx and THEY ARE WEAK AND NOT S6, sometimes in the
noise and not even s-0 but rise now and then above on qsb. It does seem
that the BIG GUN contest stations will hear qrp better then the second
or third tiere stations. I have worked VERY FEW cqers that are runing
qrp. I mostly s & P with qrp. Fun for me, but probably not for you after
the high of a big gun station and 1500 watts and a run machine.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just wanted to pitch in two cents here. I actually use Bob N4BP and Bob
AE4IC as "beacons" of sorts during contests. They consistently have good
signals to me here in New York City and I know how propagation to NC and FL
is by hearing them throughout the day.
I often sign /QRP when working 20M SSB QRP. If a DX station is calling CQ
DX, they often here my "stroke QRP" in there behind the masses and will
call "QRP only go ahead", so for SSB it can be a plus.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>for awhile now. Every now and then I will see a post
>or hear someone say that usually a station has
>to be s-5 or s-7 or some measure of strength strong
>before (whomever is making the post/statement) will be
>able to work that station.
>I always wonder if that means that they don't ever/often
>call stations that don't meet or excced that signal level?
One of those posts was mine, about the 160 contest. The reason I made
the statement is that I've tried :). I spent an hour calling a station
that was s4, 20 minutes on one that was s5, and such.
>If they do pass up stations - how do they know that the
>weak station is not QRP or that he can "hear" really well?
>Do you ever pass up weak stations?
Here's my situation. My current setup on 160 is *very* poor. I'm using
my 40m dipole at 25 feet for both transmitting and reciving. My noise
level is usually s2-3, with the SWR at around 2.5-3:1. When listening
for stations, I'll copy the stations that are under s5, and give them a
call. If they don't respond after a couple calls, I move on, unless
they're in my area. Generally the only stations I can work on 160 are
those that have good ears, or are nearby.
Now, on the other bands, it's a different story. I'll call and call and
call (within a reasonable amount of time) and try to work. But from
experience, on 160 I can't reasonably expect to work stations under
s6-7. If they're in my call area I'll go after them a bit harder, but
outside 7-land I'll call once, maybe twice, and keep spinning the dial.
>
>
>One of the reasons I ask is that I am get to do alot of
>operating from a VERY quiet location and I can "hear" very
>well as a result. I do alot of contesting - I will admit
>that most of it is at the 1500 watt level but I want to
>do more QRP contesting as well. I would hate to think that
>stations are NOT calling me because they think they dont have
>a chance of working me.
I hadn't really thought about that much, and I may need to change my
operating style to try to work stations like you describe, running QRP
and in a quiet location.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
George -- Greetings from the Land of Aloha.
Years ago, I knew an operator who would only
work stations with S9 or better signals. When
asked at a club meeting, he stated that it was
easier for him to copy and there were enough
strong signals. There was another who only
worked his brother-in-law on Sunday nights
on a "secret" frequency high in the 2-meter
band.
I'm happy that there are hundreds, perhaps
thousands of us who will, or attempt to work
everyone. Well, almost everyone.
I knew a new licensee who thought theWAS
award stood for "Worked All Stations". Why not?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I operated at KH7R, a world class contest station, very QRO, in
grid BL01 during several recent contests including the 10 meter
one most recently.
I can tell you that we were searching the 10 meter band and we
would answer and jump on any signal we could copy enough of the
time to believe we would eventually be certain of the correct
exchange. We worked a lot of signals that had no registration
on our S meter even with stacked 8 element beams.
I also have spent a fair amount of time on the 160 position
during recent contests. There will will answer anything we
can hear, and what we can hear far exceeds what will interest
the S meter at all!
At home running QRP into limited space antennas, I consider it
a luxury to work a station that is actually registering on the
S-meter.
But I can tell you that with one of the best equiped QRO stations
in the contesting end of the hobby, that if it can be heard using
filters and high quality headphones, it is answered and worked.
Of course at the beginning of the contest all the big guys are jumping
all over each other in thunderous pileups.
But by Saturday the huge guns have all had a shot at each other and
are all coming up dupes on the computer. At that time, the weaker
signals start becoming prime candidates for new mults and qso points.
Besides calling CQ during the 10 meter contest, we would stop and work
our way up and down the band stopping to examine any signal that could
be made out of the noise.
Everything is DX from here, however, so I cannot vouche for the habits
of the big mainland stations which are buried in nextdoor stations by
the hundreds, but those with good scores did not restrict themselves
to armchair copy, on that I would be willing to wager.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I answer any signal that I can copy at a 4 or better readability, this
means a RST of 419 would be called and 319 if in the clear.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>George K5TR wrote:
>..........or hear someone say that usually a station has
>to be s-5 or s-7 or some measure of strength strong
>before (whomever is making the post/statement) will be
>able to work that station. . . .
If I adhered to this kind of theory I'd be in sad shape. I have a Kenwood
TS-830S with a very stingy meter. Although I can hear most everyone clear
as a bell the meter very seldom moves and as far as I can remember has not
moved at all on any of my best DX QSO's. I have found it far more rewarding
to collect QSO's rather than meter readings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
question. FWIW here are a couple of more. I have been playing this QRP
game since about 1962 and find that I am still surprised at some of the
ones who answer and some that do not.
I never pay a lot of attention to the S-Meter, everyone knows that they
lie anyway :^) In the Contests, everyone is 5 9 KILOWATT any way. :^)
I operate with the thought that more often than not the other guy will
be running more power than I am. (I almost always run 1 Watt). I also
tend to think that he is a better operator and has better setup.
If I can copy his Call without much difficulty, I give him/her a try.
It is kind of like turning on the rig to a dead? band. If you don't make
a call, how are you really gonna know if the band is dead or if everyone
is just listening? :^) I also agree with those who commented that IN A
CONTEST you should always try at least one call. The Really Good Ops have
ESP Receivers :^) I am also reminded of the comments I read tonight of
a QRPer who worked Mainland China on QRP from Western States. I can just
hear the KW Howls now :^).. Funny thing, the Thrill is just as good if
that Power meter is swinging Fullscale at 100 Mw as it would be at 1 kw.
It is all in our head any way. :^) Some one has said, If you think it
Can't be done, You are sure to be right. OTOH If you don't try, you will
never know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
K5TR - comments .......
I want to thank everyone for responding. It was intresting.
I have been a ham since 1976 and I have use very small and poor antennas
and I have also had the good luck to get to use some huge antenna
systems. I always give a few calls to any station I want to work no
matter how big the pileup or how weak the station.
The thing that I was trying to get at was if there is a large number
of folks who might pass me by during a contest - esp. if I enter it
as a QRP station. My current station is the quietest radio location
I have EVER had a chance to use and I can hear really well when I
operate there.
One other comment - since it came up in a few of the responses.
As to signing /QRP - I am sure that there are times when this
might help, but from my end (when DX and/or running high power)
I do not find this espeically helpful. I do not think it will
help you work me (or the DX) any faster or better.
If you are loud enough to get the /QRP through then you will get
your callsign through and if you are weak - then is just confuses
the issue with a bunch of extra letters that are NOT part of your
callsign. Some folks say that they know it helps - and it might
but just as a thought if you send K5TR/QRP you will most likely
have the longest "callsign" in the pileup and the reason you
get through or the station calls for the /QRP station is
that you were the last person transmitting and thus in the clear.
--George Fremin III "You give me a $10,000 custom guitar Austin, Texas and Chet Atkins a $200 discount K5TR (ex.WB5VZL) store special, and who do you think 512/416-7010 will make better music?" geoiii@bga.com -- Lee AA4GA http://www.kkn.net/~k5tr
[
QRP-L Archive |
]
[
1993 |
1994 |
1995 |
1996 |
1997 |
1998 |
1999 |
2000
]